2008 TSL Rules

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Final Answer	2008 TSL Rules		Lead	[-]
Posts: 14 12/18/07 20:53:24	Tags : None Ok guys do we have any suggestions for the rules for BG 2008 The car count will be better for sure this year as new cars are coming to race. With the super fast times in TSO and the restrictive rules in TSE this class makes more sense now!!!! remember the fastest car doesn't always win. Final Answer
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TurboJC		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 62 12/19/07 20:46:11	Gary, Happy Holidays... I like the idea of steppng back.... what are the base rules, I have fiberglass doors and coil overs... does that work? Jack Cotton www.cottonsperformance.com 413-789-0531
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Final Answer		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 11 12/20/07 16:30:40	Jack, We talked about this before and the steel doors and stock suspension are required. weight is 3400# and a 76mm t-4 turbo M/C & HNY Gary Harmon PS I sure would like to see you run the class!!!!
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TurboJC		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 63 12/21/07 08:30:58	Final Answer wrote: Jack, We talked about this before and the steel doors and stock suspension are required. weight is 3400# and a 76mm t-4 turbo M/C & HNY Gary Harmon PS I sure would like to see you run the class!!!! Hehe, thats a funny response Gary. One sentence you say, must have steel doors... the next you say you'd like to see me in the class.... You've started a class away from TSE because there were restrictive rules that did not allow you to race, and here you are playing the same game with rules that are restrictive in a way that essentially eliminate cars that are not built like yours. A 4 bolt turbo and aftermarket intake...The Fiberglass doors and suspension are not a performance advantage..... The weight distribution angle is virtually no differance, both you and I can probably put our cars on the bumper with either suspension, traction is not an issue..... Good luck with car count. Jack Cotton www.cottonsperformance.com 413-789-0531
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Final Answer	TSL rules	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 12 12/21/07 15:20:19	Jack I'm not playing games with the rules, when the rules were first purposed in order to get the engine and performance issues settled we had to agree on the way the car would look and be basically stock appearing with lights,horn, wipers, interior,etc. The rules havenot changed for two years as promised. My car had coilovers and I had to remove them and install the wipers, I didnot make the class as my car. No one wants to change their car but the rules are there for a reason that the powers to be want. Jack it would be simple to change the doors and go back to stock suspension if you really wanted to, the stage headed cars are going to put it out of reach for production headed cars as you can see by the numbers Fiscus has run with more to come. Gary Harmon 813-355-6993
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TurboJC		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 64 12/22/07 09:46:25	Final Answer wrote: Jack I'm not playing games with the rules, when the rules were first purposed in order to get the engine and performance issues settled we had to agree on the way the car would look and be basically stock appearing with lights,horn, wipers, interior,etc. The rules havenot changed for two years as promised. My car had coilovers and I had to remove them and install the wipers, I didnot make the class as my car. No one wants to change their car but the rules are there for a reason that the powers to be want. Jack it would be simple to change the doors and go back to stock suspension if you really wanted to, the stage headed cars are going to put it out of reach for production headed cars as you can see by the numbers Fiscus has run with more to come. Gary Harmon 813-355-6993 Why ask for suggestions... your response says it alll..... like I said good luck in BG and Happy Holidays to you and yours.. Jack Cotton www.cottonsperformance.com 413-789-0531
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cdsttype		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1 01/04/08 18:17:56	I would say let jack run with his doors and suspension. he still has to be 3400 with or with out the doors. his times are consistant with the class i dont see a problem with it. especially if you want more car count. His coil overs are not really a big deal its not a back half car. For the most part it is still stock suspension other than spring adjustability. I need to see some rules soon if i am going to make BG. Thanks bill
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Ted A	Doors	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 33 01/09/08 22:10:03	Jack, I thought you had a set of steel doors painted up by Paul. The last I knew he still has them? The coil overs are not a performance advantage IMHO. I have been 1.29 with stock type springs on all 4 corners. I like the fact TSL has not changed the rules since it's conception and plan on racing in the class again. Last Edited By: Ted A 01/09/08 22:12:09. Edited 1 time.
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cdsttype		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2 01/10/08 13:42:57	I AM SORRY TO HEAR YOU PLAN ON RACING TSL AGAIN TED. YOU WERE ONE OF THE REASONS I WAS NOT GOING TO RACE TSO.
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Final Answer	2008 TSL Rules	#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 13 01/10/08 16:16:18	What If, the coil overs were allowed with stock location upper and lower bars???? Also wheelie bars, this is a safety issue and we're trying to keep from smashing oil pans etc. The glass doors will not pass with the powers to be. There are plenty of good doors in the salvage yards. These are the only rules changes being considered for 08 Any suggestions, LAST CALL THE RACE DIRECTOR WANTS THIS SETTLED ASAP Final Answer 813-355-6993
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cdsttype		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3 01/10/08 17:33:11	IS THERE A PLACE WERE I CAN VEIW THE 2007 RULES ON LINE
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TurboJC		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 65 01/11/08 08:09:11	Final Answer wrote: What If, the coil overs were allowed with stock location upper and lower bars???? Also wheelie bars, this is a safety issue and we're trying to keep from smashing oil pans etc. The glass doors will not pass with the powers to be. There are plenty of good doors in the salvage yards. These are the only rules changes being considered for 08 Any suggestions, LAST CALL THE RACE DIRECTOR WANTS THIS SETTLED ASAP Final Answer 813-355-6993 Ok, here goes again...... I just spent an hour responding to you Gary, while debating with Lorrie about sending what I wrote, something went wrong and I lost it all...... ironic.. it wasn't nice.... was it devine intervention...hmm... do you believe...ok. Your rules are biased and self serving, and show no continuity or uniformity. I'm not going to argue here, I'll leave it at this and maybe next year will bring a new RRA who will be open to the racer and not his own wants and needs. Funny, how it works..... I get coil overs... you get wheelie bars... but we're not playing games... what can I give you to get the FG doors.... Jack Cotton www.cottonsperformance.com 413-789-0531
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Ted A	Gary has been a great RRA IMHO	#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 34 01/13/08 09:41:54	I personally think Gary Harmon has done a great job with the TSL class and as a racer who has raced in the class, I have talked to Gary on the phone and at the track. His primary concern is having a successful class and think the rules the class was formed on make perfect sense and most cars comply. TSM cars with a engine change are 100% legal as well as TSE cars are 100% legal. I built my car (chassis) to be legal in other classes than TSO, not built my car for TSO and expect rule changes so I can step down. You can easily put steel doors on your car which are painted as we speak and have been sitting at Pauls for a couple years now. Gary, I vote to leave the rules as-is.
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KLHAMMETT		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 142 01/13/08 17:53:19	Gary didnt build this car around his car,He had no wiper motor and mount on his car. He had to go to a junk yard and cut the wiper motor mount off and weld it all back in to fit the rules that the GSCA wanted. Personally if i was Jack I would slap the steel doors back on,As i feel his car would be #1 or 2 qualifyer in every race.His ET and MPH with his 76 would be tops for TSL. Go change the door Jack!!! Otto Pernek 84 Hurst Olds Buick V6 Powered See ya at the Nats!!!
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Ted A		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 35 01/13/08 20:20:10	Very well said Otto, I see we can agree on something. I'd bet with a 42/76 on Jacks car that thing will run as good as the Turbonetics unit he is running currently and he put down impressive MPH at Cecil, so I would guess some 9.0x at 153, 154 would be realistic. I made a mistake in my post above, the TSM cars and TSE cars are 100% legal as-is and with the latest numbers thrown down by the TSM bunch they would not need a engine change either. See you guys at BG.
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Big Geek		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 51 01/14/08 10:37:26 GS Nats Race Director	OK ladies and germs, before posting the rules for the TSL class I am going to need the racers input here as well and here is why. As we all know these classes are set up by the racers for the racers. As such in an issue such as this we take the racers input whom have run this class for the last two years and vote on such issues. So we will get this ironed out. Thanks for your patience. Jim C.
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TurboJC		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 66 01/14/08 22:41:42	KLHAMMETT wrote: Gary didnt build this car around his car,He had no wiper motor and mount on his car. He had to go to a junk yard and cut the wiper motor mount off and weld it all back in to fit the rules that the GSCA wanted. Personally if i was Jack I would slap the steel doors back on,As i feel his car would be #1 or 2 qualifyer in every race.His ET and MPH with his 76 would be tops for TSL. Go change the door Jack!!! Actually, I guess if the GSCA didn't want wipers, then we wouldn't have them in the rules and Gary wouldn't have been in the salvage yard... so much for that angle. Otto, no offense, you don't race the class, don't have a car at the moment to race the class, so if you want to support your friends, save it for the TSO class. If I wanted to put steel doors with no crash bars in them, weighing close to the same as FG doors, then I wouild. My point is this, very simple, like Gary , my reasoning is not just for my benefit, but to anyone else in my position. It is not a rule that needs to be there. My car looks as oem and stock as the next. The pumpkin was built for TSO long before TSL became a class, I didn't have the luxury of building my car to fit both classes. In fact Gary was one of the original TSO cars wanting the 88 when I was the guy that wanted no larger than a 76, as well as many of the current TSL rules. It is obvious to me, Gary did not want me or cars like mine in HIS class.... thats kewl, I don't want to race where I am not wanted, good luck. I should have known better than to make a sensible suggestion, now I know..... without a doubt where you stand and why Gary. Nothing has changed from the old TSE-TSO days. Jack Cotton www.cottonsperformance.com 413-789-0531
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KLHAMMETT		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 143 01/15/08 22:41:42	Jack,My post was not meant to be offensive,I hope it wasnt taken that way. As far as the ruling on the doors,Ive been told that wasnt Garys call from the beginning,It was Richards. As far as not having a car and not racing the class,I am personally involved with 2 cars that SHOULD be at BG this year racing the class,Thats why i am giving my input. Otto Pernek 84 Hurst Olds Buick V6 Powered See ya at the Nats!!!
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Ted A		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 36 01/15/08 22:55:35	Otto, I think Jacks point was your input on the TSL class really isn't needed, you don't race the class and if we all had our buddies chiming in here we would NEVER get anything hashed out. Maybe the two guys you speak of can come in and get involved?
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TurboJC		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 67 01/16/08 06:18:45	Ok, my point was glass doors, I would like to hear if anyone has a problem with the doors and coil overs and if you do, why? I'm not looking for input on how to build my car or how fast my car has been or could be..... Jack Cotton www.cottonsperformance.com 413-789-0531
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KLHAMMETT		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 144 01/16/08 20:03:44	Ted A wrote: Otto, I think Jacks point was your input on the TSL class really isn't needed, you don't race the class and if we all had our buddies chiming in here we would NEVER get anything hashed out. Maybe the two guys you speak of can come in and get involved? Not everyone is internet savy,But they both have no problem with the rules as written. Otto Pernek 84 Hurst Olds Buick V6 Powered See ya at the Nats!!!
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